'Dirty Bertie': Stephen Clarke, Stéphanie Duncan and Vincent Hazard discuss the monarch who
As part of the successful radio series Autant en Emporte l'Histoire, France Inter will broadcast a special episode dedicated to Edward VII and the role he played in the negotiations leading up to the Entente Cordiale. Culturethèque was lucky enough to interview the creative minds behind this modern day Franco-British collaboration. Read below for more details on the upcoming recording.
Culturethèque: The short radio drama you co-wrote with Vincent Hazard, which is also produced by Stéphanie Duncan, is based on your biography of Edward VII Dirty Bertie: An English King Made in France. How does it feel to be a successful writer in France and to adapt your work for French radio? Would it be fair to call yourself an English writer made in France?
Stephen Clarke: Obviously as a Brit working in France, and writing about the French, is it very gratifying to have my writing approved (or at least acknowledged) by my hosts. I find that the French are much more open-minded than the Brits (which is probably why Edward VII alias Bertie used to enjoy coming here). The French don't mind at all if a foreign writer like me teases them about their foibles. I've lived here for 20+ years so I've had time to observe them, and they generally like it when foreigners describe them, as long as it's not empty clichés about eating garlic. With Dirty Bertie I tried to capture this sense of a Brit realizing that the French are very welcoming to an Englishman who speaks French and has come to join in the fun of Parisian life. Am I an English writer made in France? Not really - I think I write in a very English way. I have to include jokes in all my books, no matter how serious the subject - that's not French at all.
C: Point taken, though we'll have to see what Vincent says about that... In the author notes, the book informs us that you have returned to modern day Paris where you are doing your best ‘to live the Entente Cordiale’. Could you describe what it has been like to retrace the steps of Edward VII and how this has enlivened your research? ST: All I meant was that I try my best to be cordial to my Parisian neighbours, as the Entente Cordiale stipulates. So I don't try to invade their courtyard or steal their rubber plants. Retracing the steps of Edward VII was fun, though, because it meant reading the memoirs of some of 19th century France's most outrageous characters. The actresses were great fun.
C: In the book you also argue that if Edward had smoked a lot less, and lived for a few years longer, Europe would not have gone to war in 1914. Is 21st century Europe missing its modern day Dirty Bertie in your view?
ST: Edward used to travel around Europe for informal meetings with all the heads of state. He was the Kaiser and the Tsar's uncle, and friends with all the others. He was the only man in Europe who could calm the Kaiser's warlike instincts. After these meetings, the diplomats used to step in and formalize things. When he died in 1910 the French said the great peacemaker is dead, now there will be war. We don't have this kind of authoritative diplomat nowadays. But then Europe is a much more complex place, and politics isn't done over cigars and brandy in spas. Maybe it should be (though without the cigar smoke).
C: How does it feel to have French voice actors bring back to life this atypical “Victorian” figure whom you have come to know so well through your research for Dirty Bertie as well as 100 Years of Annoying the French?
ST: As a writer it always feels great to hear actors speaking your words. As long as they're good actors, of course, and these French actors are excellent.
C: Which francophone writer changed your life or helped you to see the world in a different way?
ST: Albert Camus showed me that you can write about deep subjects without being boring. And Raymond Queneau confirmed my post-Python English instinct that words were invented as raw material for jokes.
C: We understand that you are working on a performance piece which takes into account our long history of Franco-British relations. Can you tell us any more?
ST: I'm the curator of the permanent collection at the Centre Culturel de l'Entente Cordiale at the Chateau d'Hardelot near Calais. The exhibition is based on my book 1000 Years of Annoying the French. For Hardelot I'm developing a words and music show - I'll talk for a few minutes on a story from the book (Eg. how France claims to have written God Save the King/Queen) then some singers will perform music from the period. I've found old songs going right back beyond Napoleon and God save the King to the time of Agincourt - a French writer has a satirical dig when Henry V died in the 15th century . The show should be seriously historical but entertaining.
Culturethèque: As a director of documentaries, music videos, short films and now a scriptwriter (for both radio and film) you seem capable of putting your hand to all media, genres and formats. Could you tell us a little bit about your career starting from your early experiences?
Vincent Hazard: I went to film school in France and then spent a year in Bournemouth where I specialised in sound design. I then went on to work in London as a sound engineer whilst developing my first project, a short film called Nicholas, which won a grant from the Art Council. I directed it in London in 2000 and the film did well at festivals. This led me to write and direct more short films and music videos whilst pursuing a career as a sound editor for feature films. I was lucky enough to work with big influential directors like Stephen Frears, Costa-Gavras and Luc Besson. As I was writing and directing "on the side", I enjoyed complete freedom to choose projects I cared about; drama, comedies, documentaries. I could pick projects that interested me rather thinking of the financial rewards. I am very curious about the world and have a passion for comedy and the techniques used to write it, something I discovered in the UK. I have slowly drifted towards almost full time scriptwriting.
C: Who are your creative role models, past and present, and where else do you draw inspiration in terms of your style? What is the work you are most proud of, or the most successful to your mind? (we personally loved your short films Nouvelle Cuisine and Société Anonyme).
VH: I love iconic scriptwriters like Jean-Claude Carrière, people who can adapt to different styles. In terms of comedy, I worship Hollywood writers from the golden age, such as, Ernst Lubitsch or Billy Wilder. More recently, I think Pierre Salvadori and british director Edgar Wright are making amazing films.
It's very hard for me to judge my own work. I always feel the best project is going to be the next one. Once I finish something I can only see the flaws.
C: We understand that you undertook your studies in the UK as well as in France, do you think there are any obvious differences between the French and British education systems in terms of their approaches? If so, in what ways have they helped you to develop your own ideas and enrich your career?
VH: My experience in the UK changed my life; I studied then worked there, and eventually married a British girl.
In France, I did a scientific degree, simply because I was good at maths, that's the Cartesian influence on our society. The best schools tend to be engineering schools. But when I arrived in the UK I realised that the so-called elite tend to go for English or literature degrees at Cambridge and Oxford. My Bournemouth degree was an MA in sound and I met a whole bunch of really creative people there that totally opened up my mind. Since then, I have become a great advocate for the Entente cordiale. I think the two cultures are very complementary and we have a lot to learn from each other. I try in my everyday life; when dealing with some unhelpful customer services rep for instance... I always start off very polite like the Brits, it usually gets good results in France, but if it fails I tend to switch to a more Gallic approach, using ferocious threats. The shift usually makes the receiver think you're insane and they usually comply with your demand.
C: Haha, there is definitely comic sketch material in there somewhere... So Franco-British projects obviously feature throughout your work. Is there something that you find particularly appealing about working alongside British partners? How did this develop?
VH: More seriously, I love working with the Brits, for the same reason; we are complementary. The animosity between both countries is a myth, for instance, French people lap up British pop culture, their humour, their series. I believe the French are only beginning to take comedy seriously again, but in the UK, it plays a big part in society, it's a way of communicating. Being funny improves your social status, and as a result, comedy is taken very seriously. In France it was discarded for years as a subgenre. But when the Brits invented "wit", the French had "esprit". We're only now beginning to acknowledge that, actually, humour is also an important part of our culture.
Today as a comedy scriptwriter, I feel that I also have to learn my craft from British or American masters who possess a knowledge that we have left behind for a while.
Tom, the Brit, and Bixente, the Basque, two roommates with unusual jobs in the short film Nouvelle Cuisine (2011).
C: How did you get involved with Stephen Clarke and Stéphanie Duncan on this project? Could you describe your work process together?
VH: I have a great relationship with some of the producers at Radio France, Stephanie Duncan and Christophe Barreyre at France Inter, Céline Geoffroy at France Culture. I think there is a great level of trust and they tend to give the writer more freedom than in television. Stéphanie was very open to having more comedy and when I suggested adapting Stephen's book, she trusted us. I have been a fan of Stephen's novels for years and he was humble enough to agree to work with me, on occasions, for some radio dramas. When we work together we pitch the idea together, bounce ideas off of each other and then one of us does a first draft and sends it to the other. I find that we usually agree on 95% of the content, and Stephen doesn't have a big ego so it makes the process very smooth when it comes to finding a compromise over the remaining 5%.
C: Are there any unrealised projects or ambitions you would like to accomplish in the future?
VH: Yes, I am currently writing a comedy feature film and am also working on both TV and radio series. I'd love to work on a long running radio series, potentially recorded live, like the BBC does. France Culture does that for one shots sometimes, but I think the new ways in which people listen to radio, via podcast, is calling for longer running programs and comedy is definitely a very good genre for that.
Culturethèque: Amongst other successful radio documentaries you have produced for France Inter (including Les femmes, toute une histoire), you have produced these captivating historical dramas as part of the series Autant en emporte l’histoire. These depict fictitious as well as real characters, who are ‘caught in the turmoil of an episode of history’. How did the idea of an episode about Edward VII emerge and what do you think this period of history reveals about this individual?
Stéphanie Duncan: Occasionally I will propose a subject, period or theme to the authors; but it was really Vincent Hazard, the co-author of this adaptation, who suggested the topic of Edward VII. We discussed it at length and then agreed on a plot.
Edward VII strikes me as an amusing and larger than life character who simultaneously played an important role in the history of Franco-British relations. As improbable as it may sound today, it is worth noting that whilst the French cut off the head of their own king, they clearly held deep affection for the British royal family...
C: The episodes you produce for France Inter examine extraordinary people in heightened situations throughout history who often have interesting cross-cultural encounters (such as George Orwell 1936 : un Anglais en Catalogne). Do you think there is a growing appetite for dual-cultural dramas and documentaries across TV and radio audiences?
SD: That's an interesting question. It is possible. For my part, I tend simply to look for topics which have the potential to resonate with the French public, even if they are foreign.
C: And finally, a more candid question if we may. 2016 was somewhat of a challenging year for women and a new year always provides the opportunity for a fresh start. What advice would you give to women in 2017 who are thinking about pursuing a career in radio production given that it is such a competitive industry?
SD: To women who want to work in the field of radio, I would say, as with all kinds of jobs: believe in yourself, allow yourself to be confident and work with integrity. It is entirely possible to be professional whilst not being too shy.
The radio drama which is co-written by Vincent Hazard and Stephen Clarke, will be broadcast on Radio France Inter, as part of the series Autant en Emporte l'Histoire on January 8th at 9pm French time.